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City and County of San Francisco
Commission of Animal Control & Welfare Archived Meetings

Meeting Information


2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 

5:34 PM

 

  1. Call to Order and Roll Call

 

Present: Commissioners: Laurie Kennedy-Routhier, Christine Garcia, Andrea Brooks, Sally Stephens, Philip Gerrie, Pam Hemphill, Mara Weiss DVM, Vicky Guldbech - ACC, William Herndon – SF Police, Bob Palacio – SF Park & Rec

 

Absent: Public Health Dept. Vacant

 

2. Public Comment

 

      L Danyielle Yacabucci -  Welcomed new commissioners aboard.

 

      Richard Fong -  Suggested guard dogs for the new park rangers. Supports a resolution

      forbidding campers from removing wild animals from their habitats.

 

      Sylvia Johnson - Supports welfare of animals.

 

      Sergio Swett - Concern for welfare of dogs at dog parks especially his dog which ate

      an unknown substance. Park official refused to close dog park for investigation.

      Concern for junkies near to dogs and playground. Concern of overall slow response

      of local government.

 

      3. Approval of Draft Minutes from the August 9, 2007 Meeting

 

      Comr. Stephens - Name spellings corrected.

 

      Public Comment

 

       Lurilla Harris - Spelling corrections.

 

       Richard  Fong - Corrected his previous statements.

      

       Comr. Garcia moved to approve minutes. Comr. Stephens seconded.

       Minutes  approved unanimously with corrections.

 

       4. Chairperson’s report and opening remarks

 

        Comr. Routhier - Opened discussion on the direction of the commission and basics

        on meeting laws. Public comment is needed on any item voted on. Commissioners

        do not need to respond. Once public comment is closed no further comment is

        allowed.

 

        Comr. Weiss -Wanted clarification on responding to inaccuracies in some public

        Comment.

     Comr. Routhier – History of having experts in audience reply to publics’ questions.

      Inappropriate for audience members to shout in response.

 

      Comr. Weiss – Asks if it is appropriate as a vetanarian to reply to questions or     

      inaccuracies  after public comment.

 

     Comr. Routhier – It is at the discretion of the commissioner.

 

     Comr. Guldbech -  Often best to wait until end of public comment and  reply in

     general rather than specifically to untrue or inaccurate statements.

 

     Comr. Routhier – More important to focus on purpose as commissioners and whether

      replying to speakers serves that end.

 

     Comr. Guldbech - Answering is sometimes appropriate if many speakers are

      saying something similarly untrue or inaccurate.

 

      Comr. Herndon – Public comment is “comment” not dialogue. If a commissioner

      wants to make a comment, he/she can do so afterward.

 

      Comr. Hemphill – Questions for clarification are OK but not summary judgements.

 

      Comr. Herndon – Consider agendizing for further discussion, for the following

      meeting certain topics that may merit investigation.

 

      Comr. Palacio – Agrees with Comr. Herndon. Personal comments can be saved until

       after the meeting.

      Comr. Guldbech – Agrees with agendizing items that need more investigation until

       the following meeting.

 

  Comr. Gerrie -  Many good suggestions for the commission are given by the public.

       Minutes record those suggestions but it ends there.

 

  Comr.  Routhier -  Agenda items can be brought forward by any commissioner. Chair

  verifies that it is under ACW’s jurisdiction. During meeting the agenda item is 

  opened for discussion by a motion which is seconded.

 

  Comr. Garcia – In previous years attended meeting as a member of the public. Had

  ideas but was unable to inspire  commissioners to adopt them. Suggests keeping a

  tally of ideas from the public during meeting. Review ideas during the “closing

  review of task allotment”. Collectively decide which ones to take up. Public would

  then know if their idea has been taken up.

 

  Comr. Routhier – One difficulty would be some items would need more research to

  determine if or what ACW  has jurisdiction to move on. It may be more appropriate

for other agencies to take the item up.

 

Comr. Brooks – Unclear on possible boundries on taking new items for the agenda.

 

Comr. Herndon – Commission has taken up many items over the years, has spent much time and effort yet hasn’t gone anywhere. Commission has had publicity, created controversy, received media attention, but no action. Bringing items that may just receive police attention to the commission may serve the public by bringing awareness  to the issue. Advises looking at issues in terms of making it better for the animals and people in SF. Took two years of meetings to pass “Bite & Run Law”. Issue was taken up and passed on the state level recently. Commission has set an example that has extended to a larger constituency.

 

Comr. Routhier – Finds it helpful to have City dept.  reps. on the commission to hear how laws are structured.

 

Comr. Guldbech – Meetings with few agenda items can be a time for community outreach  for taking up new issues.

 

Comr. Routhier – Question over the years has been, “What can and should we do?”

Commission’s job is to make recommendations to the board of Supervisors. Outreach leads to education which has been a sticky issue as to the jurisdiction  of  the commission.

 

Comr. Hemphill – Regrets not more communication among commissioners.

 

Comr. Routhier – Sunshine Law forbids a quorum of voting commissioners meeting about an item via, e-mail, or other means. Three members are OK and can work together on an item.

 

Comr. Herndon – Has been contacted in the past and has given his opinion about  issues. As a non-voting commissioner, has been willing to assist.

 

Comr. Stephens – Suggests focusing on policy and regulation issues. Suggests giving back round information to other commissioners to prepare. If information is given to commissioners, must also be given to the public. Unsure if that is possible or doable.

 

Comr. Routhier – Refers to Commissioner Orientation Packet about questions for agenda items concerning Commission’s and Board of Supervisors’ jurisdiction over an item. Guest speakers are helpful for their expertise and need to prepped beforehand as to appropriate time to speak and staying on issue at hand. Helpful to list names of guest speakers on the agenda for public notice.

 

Comr. Brooks – What would be an appropriate time limit for guest speakers?

 

Comr. Routhier -  That is up to the inviting commissioner and the speaker to work out taking into consideration limited time constraints.

 

Comr. Brooks – How should we liason with the Board of Supervisors to see if agenda items will be welcomed or not?

 

Comr. Routhier – Suggests not acting alone but with support from Commission. Commissioner presenting and agenda item and the Chair going together has been a past practice. This isn’t policy but how to be affective as a team. We need to present items that are favorable to the Supervisors. If we present unfavorable items we will be wasting our time.

 

Comr. Garcia – What  about contacting a Supervisor first with possible list of items for the agenda to see what would be acceptable?

 

Comr. Routhier – Preferable to bring that list first to our Commission for consideration.

 

Comr. Herndon – Recalls past Commission meetings in which Supervisors came to us with items for review.

 

Comr. Brooks – Uncomfortable with other Commissioners meeting with Supervisors on issues not discussed beforehand at Commission meetings.

 

Comr. Herndon – We advise the Supervisors on what the public is presenting.

 

Comr. Guldbech – Prior meeting with Supervisors have included questions on how much time our Commission has met on a certain issue.

 

Comr. Stephens – We exist as a buffer between public and the Board on animal issues.

Received a copy of “Good Government Guide” from City Attorney’s office. Found it helpful and recommended obtaining a copy for all Commissioners.

 

4 A Public Comment

 

Nancy Wuerfel – Complimented Commissions’  discussion. Health Code states Commission reports to the Board for recommendations as well as policy of actions that may be taken by any agency of the City for the welfare of animals. Health Code gives Commission wider latitude. Supports Comr. Garcia’s suggestion to go over suggestions from the public during “Closing review and task allotments”. Two types of public comment; first from experts includes dialogue to educate; second from public to listen.

 

Lisa Vittori – How much do Commissioners outside interests influence meetings with Supervisors? Do responsibilities as Commissioners curtail speaking in behalf of ones’ outside interests? Doesn’t like having to choose between wildlife & domestic animals. Feels it is a false dichotomy. Feels pushed to one side or another. Encouraged Commission to take welfare of all animals into account.

 

Sylvia Johnson – Supports animal welfare.

 

Richard Fong – Wants updates on issues.

 

5. Committee Reports/Commissioner’s Reports None

 

6. Status and tracking of letters of recommendation approved by the Commission, requested action by the Board of Supervisors None

 

7. Old Business  None

 

8A. New Business

 

    Comr. Routhier  

 

    Concern about the welfare of animals being trapped behind electric fences with goats     

    controlling  vegetation. Occurs every year, suggests  a resolution or a City policy with  

    goat contractors to make provisions for wildlife.

 

   Comr. Herndon – Suggests a big space on the bottom such as for horses.

 

   Comr. Hemphill – Goats can squeeze under narrow spaces unlike horses.

 

   Comr. Garcia – Is electricity necessary?

 

   Comr. Weiss – Are other animals killed or harmed from the electric fences?

 

    Comr. Routhier – Main concern is animals not having access to food and water.

 

    Comr. Herndon – Are goats destroying environment animals live in?

 

Comr. Routhier – Yes, that is the idea.

 

Comr. Stephens – Electric fences are primarily used in the city not rural areas to avoid harm by human and automobile contact.

 

Public Comment

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – SPCA, Concern for nocturnal animals that rest during the day. Fence remains up for two to three weeks. Suggests  1.  allow animals means of exiting electrified fencing by plastic tubing or non-electrified panel. 2. Provide food and water for animals unable to find exits 3. Limit use of electrified fencing only when necessary

    for human health or safety 4. Use fencing humanely to avoid double fencing which can 

     trap animals between the two. Fencing always goes to the ground.  

 

Comr. Stephens – Can fences be used in smaller areas for less time?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – Goat contractors manage their goats for efficiency. Their only concern is for their goats. They put access panels where fence ends not on animal paths.

Comr. Palacio – Do you know of alternative solutions?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – Use of access panels and attract wildlife by food and water to access spots which must be on wildlife paths.

 

Comr. Herndon – Would food and water attract goats as well?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – Asks contractors to provide food and water at dusk when goats have settled down.

 

Comr. Herndon – If goats are settled electric panels could be turned off?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – They won’t. Liability issues. Goats are currently at Laguna Honda. The main issue for using the goats is the homeless not fire prevention.

 

Comr. Routhier – What are the main objections from the goat contractors?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – It takes more batteries, they want to prevent goats escaping, and it is more work for them. We provide food and water for the other animals.

 

Comr. Routhier – Does someone live with the goats?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – They  live offsite in a trailer. Cameras watch the fencing.

 

Comr. Hemphill – Are you seeing raccoons and other wildlife or is it mainly feral cats?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – It’s everything.

 

Comr. Hemphill – The current is alternating and emits a sound. Once an animal is shocked they don’t go near it.

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – Plastic tubing is also being considered, 12” diameter, placed around the fence at the base. We have brought this to the goat contractors. They agree and don’t do it.

 

Comr. Routhier – How many goat contractors does the City have?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – One company is used at Laguna Honda.

 

Comr. Guldbech – Animals lacking food and water sounds like an Animal  Care & Control issue. I can follow up.

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – Had worked with Kat Brown but it didn’t go anywhere.

 

Comr. Guldbech – Can personally follow up to meet goat contractors. Issues are denying food and water is cruelty. Feeding wildlife is against the law. Current practice cannot continue. Find a way to let wildlife out that is cheap and easy. Tubing is doable.

 

Comr. Herndon – What about calling Fish & Game? Wildlife is being trapped which violates state law.

 

Comr. Guldbech – I will forward that complaint to them.

 

Comr. Gerrie – Have you found any animals dead or starved when the fence comes down?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – Most wildlife hides from view and the terrain is often difficult to walk.

 

Nancy Wuerfel – Goats are a fine IPM concept. Goats eat the leaves and leave a lot of the habitat for wildlife. Encourages future goat contractors to abide by wildlife friendly practices by practices recommended to the Board of Supervisors from ACW

 

MaryAnn Buxton – Has been at Laguna Honda last two years. Has ensured wildlife is fed. Every  year is the same struggle. Electrified fence works better than panels because the goats horns don’t get stuck .

 

Sylvia Johnson – Supports the use of goats.

 

Commisioner Comments

 

Comr. Palacio – Park & Rec uses goats as well. Can review contracts to see what is required and add stipulations as discussed if needed. Contract stipulations could apply to all City agencies as a ‘Memorandum of understanding.’

 

Comr. Guldbech – Will wait until taking action until Palacio reviews contracts.

 

Comr. Stephens – Wants to see action as policy.

 

Comr. Herndon – Contract should stipulate to obey all City, State and local laws.

 

Comr. Garcia – When talking with goat contractors show the local ordinance requiring X versus threatening with violating the law,  as a better  way to interact.

 

9. Public Comment

 

Nancy Wuerfel – Comment of public comment.  Suggests writing down suggestions from the public.

 

Unnamed female – Have the Commissioners been asked to resign under the Mayor’s request?

 

L Danyielle Yacabucci – How can Commission increase its credibility?

 

Comr. Guldbech – Commission has passed important items in the past but it takes a lot of work. Commission depends on the public to bring items forward.

 

Comr. Herndon – Some issues that have been worked on were not going to make it.

 

10. Calendar Items – not recorded

 

11. Closing Review of Task Allotment and Next Steps – not recorded

 

12. Adjournment  7:10 PM